Politicalmonkey2010

The Truth Shall Set You Free…It might piss you off first, but it will set you free.

If He Could, Bin Laden Would Bomb the Cordoba Initiative

Posted by politicalmonkey2010 on August 8, 2010

This is worth the read – taken from The Atlantic (http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2010/08/if-he-could-bin-laden-would-bomb-the-cordoba-initiative/60833/)
Written by Jeffrey Goldberg – a national correspondent for The Atlantic. Author of the book Prisoners: A Story of Friendship and Terror, he has reported from the Middle East and Africa. He also writes the magazine’s advice column.

If He Could, Bin Laden Would Bomb the Cordoba Initiative

Aug 3 2010, 11:00 AM ET
This seems like such an obvious point, but it is apparently not obvious to the many people who oppose the Cordoba Initiative’s planned mosque in lower Manhattan, so let me state it as clearly as possible: The Cordoba Initiative, which is headed by an imam named Feisal Abdul Rauf, is an enemy of al Qaeda, no less than Rudolph Giuliani and the Anti-Defamation League are enemies of al Qaeda. Bin Laden would sooner dispatch a truck bomb to destroy the Cordoba Initiative’s proposed community center than he would attack the ADL, for the simple reason that Osama’s most dire enemies are Muslims. This is quantitatively true, of course — al Qaeda and its ideological affiliates have murdered thousands of Muslims — but it is ideologically true as well: al Qaeda’s goal is the purification of Islam (that is to say, its extreme understanding of Islam) and apostates pose more of a threat to Bin Laden’s understanding of Islam than do infidels.

I know Feisal Abdul Rauf; I’ve spoken with him at a public discussion at the 96th street mosque in New York about interfaith cooperation. He represents what Bin Laden fears most: a Muslim who believes that it is possible to remain true to the values of Islam and, at the same time, to be a loyal citizen of a Western, non-Muslim country. Bin Laden wants a clash of civilizations; the opponents of the mosque project are giving him what he wants.

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13 Responses to “If He Could, Bin Laden Would Bomb the Cordoba Initiative”

  1. kafirjon said

    Goldberg has been deceived by Imam Rauf. True that Bin Laden and his ilk have killed a lot of Muslims in an effort to force the “lazy” Muslims into fighting for Allah with all their might and wealth. But Imam Rauf is only a peace-maker so far as his English speaking audience is concerned. He is clearly an Islamist, committed to the eventual overthrow of the US government and its Constitution. See my post about it: http://harrisonburg-va.actforamericachapters.org/2010/08/07/religious-freedom-or-religious-treason/

    • I read your blog, and your reasoning about Freedom of Religion – and how it does not apply to Islam is absolutely perverted. Under our First Amendment there is also the idea of freedom of speech, which we are all exercising in cyberspace, it however does not require you to be sane or coherent. By the way your links to your “sources” don’t work. But I don’t think you thought anybody would check those sources did you? What you are sowing my friend are seeds of hatred and fear. Fear controls people – you seek to control, you fear that which you do not understand. When you cherry pick items, take them out of context, do you think that is a valid argument? It is this perversion of the facts for the purpose of division that is more frightening than any terrorist because people like you, sowing disinformation, hatred, fear will bring the US down. We will not be able to blame it on any terrorist or outside force, the ignorance is coming from within. I find it ironic that you compare Islam to Nazi in your About page, and yet you have the hubris to say that Islam should not fall within the First Amendment rights? I think my friend you need to read your history and get your facts straight. You cannot throw out or apply the Constitution to only your favored groups, it applies to all or it applies to none. The Founding Father’s knew this, it applied 200 years ago and it applies today.

  2. kafirjon said

    Well, thanks for all the time you spent on my blog. I’m honored, but disappointed in your understanding of Islam. Freedom of religion should NOT apply to any ‘religion’ that mandates the killing of people who leave that religion. Would you agree? How about the mandate to kill anyone who speaks against the prophet or Islam? Yes, it’s part of Islamic doctrine. Using your line of reasoning, we should offer groups who believe that it pleases god to maim and murder, the freedom to maim and murder in our country because their ideology is called a “religion.” You fool.

    Sorry about the links. I get that sorted out.

    • Fool? You are calling me a fool? Sir, if I thought for one minute you were capable of seeing beyond your ignorance I would take the time to personally educate you on Islam. Keep in mind I am a Christian, and I have no desire to convert to Islam. I have lived on and off in the middle east for several years. I had to laugh at your site when you said you knew “A” Muslim family. Some how by knowing one family this now qualifies you to judge an entire religion? Your sources for your blog are horribly misinformed. Do you think because you throw out an Arabic word that therefore it must be true and credible? Even your translations are incorrect. Could you not have even copied the information correctly? I have an in depth understanding of Islam, and one that is not acquired by reading some fear based propaganda blog. I view you Sir as a blackboard, one that I can take my chalk and illustrate how in America, a country where we have the finest educational institutions ignorance and fear run rampant. Instead of educating yourself, you choose to operate on fear. Stayed tuned, I am going to dismantle each and every one of your grossly misguided points..on my time table.

      • kafirjon said

        Looking forward to reading how you dismantle my understanding of Islam. I just hope you are knowledgeable enough of Islam to support your opinions with references to primary sources rather than your observation of some Muslims.

        BTW, you need to actually read my posts if you are going to comment on them intelligently. When I stated that I knew a muslim family, I was stating an objection that is heard frequently by people who have observed a person and think they have an accurate understanding of the religion.

      • You are using a very old tactic, which is acknowledge the obvious flaw and try to get past it, i.e I know a Muslim family, so it isn’t like I don’t know them at all…you did the same thing when you acknowledged the Christian Crusades…in the south we have a saying…that dog don’t hunt….

  3. gesvol said

    You know, if you want to take things out of context and in literal terms, there are a good many killing mandates in the Christian Bible too. So I guess freedom of religion shouldn’t be extended to Christianity either.

    I also find it hard to believe that some sort of revolution is going to find its beginnings by a group asking for a building permit.

    • kafirjon said

      I’d like to be corrected on any “out of context” and “literal” (what ever that is supposed to mean) mistakes I’ve made. Please show the examples, so that I can make corrections.

      Killings in the Bible: Great point, so long as your understanding of the killing passages recorded in the Bible are to be applied from the time they were given to the end of time. However, the Bible records history as it relates to those type of passages. Israel was commanded to slaughter the Canaanites. My study has shown that these people were very wicked, had been warned of judgment, and among their dirty deed was the sacrificing babies on fired alters. God’s plan included Israel possessing that land, but even though that it true, God brought judgment on Israel as He had promised He would and removed them from the land. You can’t find a single verse to suggest that God wants his people to continue killing non-Jews.

      The Qur’an is not a book that records history like the Bible, but it is rather a collection of Allah’s commands. It is clear that these commands to kill the infidels were not to be limited to a particular time in history, but rather they were to continue. For a couple of Qur’anic examples:
      Amongst them we (Allah) have placed enmity and hatred till the Day of Judgment. Every time they kindle the fire of war, Allah doth extinguish it; but they (ever) strive to do mischief on earth. And Allah loveth not those who do mischief. (Surah 5:64)
      Fight them so that idolatry will not exist any more and God’s religion will stand supreme. If theygive up the idols), God will be Well Aware of what they do. (Surah 8:39)
      Here’s an authoritative Hadith example:
      (Muhammad said:) The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews. (Sahih Muslim Book 041, Number 6985)

      • I suggest you review your history with regards to the Bible, is it a documented history? How accurate is that history? Was it recorded, written down when it occurred or was it in fact oral traditional for centuries?
        Do you know what an infidel is? – read my blog and I tell you, go ahead, search educate yourself.
        Out of context, completely out of context, evidently you have grossly misunderstood the entire passage :
        Amongst them we (Allah) have placed enmity and hatred till the Day of Judgment. Every time they kindle the fire of war, Allah doth extinguish it; but they (ever) strive to do mischief on earth. And Allah loveth not those who do mischief. (Surah 5:64)
        Bringing it into context – the Jews were lamenting giving charity. In short saying why do we have to give charity, does God not have more than we do? Let’s God give charity, they were saying that even God’s hand are tied with giving charity. This is of course is a hateful notion in any religion to suggest that God’s hands are tied..some call it blasphemy..Is this lamenting of the Jewish tribe a new notion? I think not, read your bible, read the old testament. It is full of lamentations…Here is the whole thing Surah

        Blaspheming Against God

        [5:64] The Jews even said, “GOD’s hand is tied down!” It is their hands that are tied down. They are condemned for uttering such a blasphemy. Instead, His hands are wide open, spending as He wills. For certain, your Lord’s revelations to you will cause many of them to plunge deeper into transgression and disbelief. Consequently, we have committed them to animosity and hatred among themselves until the Day of Resurrection. Whenever they ignite the flames of war, GOD puts them out. They roam the earth wickedly, and GOD dislikes the evildoers.

        To your next point:
        Fight them so that idolatry will not exist any more and God’s religion will stand supreme. If theygive up the idols), God will be Well Aware of what they do. (Surah 8:39)….does this sound at all familiar? Like maybe the Fourth Commandment? …You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

        Finally to your last point:
        Do you know what a Hadith is? Do you have the final interpretation of the Book of Revelations with complete certainty?

        Buddy you are fighting a losing battle, and the more you come out the more your are showing your ignorance. What is quite evident is that you have taken somebody else’s word that all of these things must be true. You have not investigated any of it. If you wanted to truly enter into a dialogue of understanding you would remove those offensive lies from your site. Go seek out that one Muslim family you know and beg their forgiveness for your ignorance and hatred. And then you would open your mind, your eyes, go discover for yourself, ask questions, be of humble heart and admit you do not know. You may be surprised to know that Allah and God are the same.

  4. kafirjon said

    dude, we are not going to be able to have an intelligent conversation unless you actually answer my questions and reply to my comments. You questions about the history of the Bible are irrelevant to our discussion.

    Yes, I know what an infidel is. I am one according to the Qur’an. Worse yet, I am like the two other’s who Muhammad had murdered for speaking against his movement.

    On the ‘out of context’ verse:
    The second half of this sura continues to expound upon the wickedness of the Jews and Christians. Verses 61-86 criticize the Jews and Christians for refusing to follow Muhammad. Why don’t the Jews’ rabbis stop their evil behavior (v. 63)? They even dare to say that “Allah’s hand is fettered” (v. 64). The part of the verse you emphasized (not wanting to give) is not relevant except to say that it was a beef that Muhammad had with them. Muhammad then went on to declare that they would be punished by the Muslims until the day of Judgment.

    Here is a Major Tafsir’s comment on the relevant part of the verse. It came from: http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=1&tTafsirNo=74&tSoraNo=5&tAyahNo=64&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2
    And what has been revealed to you from your Lord, of the Qur’ān, will surely increase many of them in insolence and disbelief, because of their [very] disbelief in it; and We have cast between them enmity and hatred until the Day of Resurrection, and so every sect among them is opposed to the other. Every time they light the fires of war, that is, for war against the Prophet (s), God extinguishes them, that is, every time they desire it [war], He repels them. And they hasten about the earth in corruption, that is, [they hasten about] corrupting, through acts of disobedience, and God does not love corrupters, meaning that He will punish them.

    The conclusion is that Muhammad hated the Jews and Christians and regularly cursed them. Buring the last 10 years of Muhammad’s life, he and his followers killed the Jews and others who would not submit, stole from them, took their wives and children as slaves, exiled them from their home land, ect. Gosh! Sign me up for Islam. What a desirable religion.

    Surah 8:39 Your interpretation is unbelievable. I bet you are getting this stuff from one of those “What is Islam” sites designed to deceive the Western world into thinking Islam is peaceful. Verses 31-40 of Sura 8 discuss the perversity of the pagan Quraysh, whom the Muslims have just defeated in the Battle of Badr.

    Discussing the 4th command is once again IRRELEVANT to our discussion! It doesn’t matter what Muhammad’s beef with the non-Muslims is. The point is that the polytheists were to be fought until they submit to Islam, which is the same as saying stop practice their polytheism.

    Hadith: Yes, I know what a hadith is. It’s much easier to understand than the Qur’an b/c there is some historical context and it is recording history rather than just being a set of statements. If you are suggesting that the hadith is hard to interpret, you don’t have any idea what you are talking about. Comparing the Hadith to Revelation is frankly stupid.

    Why do you persist in saying that I claimed to know a Muslim family, when I was talking about objections I hear from people like you.

    Allah and God are the same. OMG. Boy, you have not studied Islam. You should understand the web sites produced by Muslims for Americans are purposely set up to deceive. It’s intentional. Ever heard of taqiyya? Kitman? Check into it.

    • Dude – you are the one who brought up the bible. And now you can’t defend your position can you?
      Tell me what is an infidel? You didn’t answer the question. Nor did you answer the question what a Hadith is.
      With regards to relevence…you are the one who brought up the Surah verses, I didn’t pick them you did.
      Where do I get my information? Dude, I am Catholic American woman, born and bred in the USA, and currently living in Cairo Egypt, with Al Azhar University right down the street – the seat of Islam, founded in 970.
      Because you throw out a couple of Arabic words, do you think that makes you an authority? I understand those words, you are the one who does not.
      I only brought up the Muslim family because YOU published that little fact on your site. I didn’t publish your site, you did.
      If for one minute you think Allah and God are different you my friend are sadly mistaken. You need to study Islam, you need to study history of Jews, Christians and Moslems – they are all Abrahamic faiths (go ahead google it). If you took an earnest look at it, there is absolutely no way you could make that statement that Allah and God are not the same.
      If you wanted to open up a serious discussion and read the entire Koran, discuss it in full context that would be one thing, you don’t want that. I can take any article and “cherry pick” – that does nobody any good. It discredits everybody. Read it in full, A to Z.
      As I said I will in my time – dismantle all of your arguments. I know this excites you, and I am glad that I am giving you something to look forward to, because I always enjoy busting balls of the ignorant, I think of it as bloodsport. Some people hunt deer and bear, I hunt the ignorant. In the meantime I would suggest that you sharpen your claws, and brass plate your balls, because I know I will enjoy looking at said set of balls on my mantle after I finish busting them.
      There is one thing I am going to suggest that you do until the next time we meet, read this

  5. kafirjon said

    You want to test Islam to see if it is evil? Start sharing your Catholic faith with students or staff of Al Azar. Better yet, ask them what should happen to any Muslim who converts to Christianity? Let me know how it goes.

    How did you come to live in Cairo?

    • Every single day my friend, we have faith based discussions – Muslims and Christians, people work and live together. I have lived many places in the world, my business brings me to Cairo, and in each and every place I have lived, I have taken the opportunity to know the people. I have never been afraid to say to somebody I don’t understand what you are doing, what you believe in, and every single time I have done this in my 40 plus years – I have been met with an extended hand and warm hospitality. Stay tuned, you may find it enlightening. I wish we would have started on a different note, I really do, but I can’t unring that bell. We started as adversaries, and we may end as adversaries, but I hope I at least cause you to think.

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