The Truth Shall Set You Free…It might piss you off first, but it will set you free.

Archive for April, 2010

Arizona Immigration Law Practical Solutions? or Just Free Political Ads?

Posted by politicalmonkey2010 on April 27, 2010

So what’s the difference between the Federal Laws and the Arizona immigration law?

It gives or more accurately requires law enforcement and employees of any state agency to verify your legal status, without a crime being involved.

So I sat here and pondered…here are some practical, simple  real life examples…

You are in the park, you are not breaking the law, but you are loud, having fun..the police come over to find out what is going on, no law has been broken, but now they are in “contact” with you, hence they now have an obligation to verify that everybody is in this country legally, and they can feel free to in essence proceed with a warrant-less search.

What if you are a witness to a crime, let’s say a murder.  You know who did it.  But guess what you don’t have the documents you need.  Do you think for one minute you are going to come forward and tell the police I saw who killed this person?

What if you are in an abusive situation?  What if you have been raped?  Mugged?  Beaten?  …and you don’t have papers?  If you are in Arizona, which the last time I check was still part of the USA, the place where we believe in life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, you had better keep your mouth shut  – you are up the proverbial creek without a paddle.

Recently I was in to re-new my driver’s license, which was a journey into the depths of hell to begin with, but now there you are, all set to get your new driver’s license, but guess what the guy in front of you doesn’t have his papers to prove that he is legal, which of course all state employees will be obligated to verify…get ready to wait.  Staying with the car scenario, if you have a car, you probably have insurance…maybe even your state requires you to have insurance.  With no driver’s license, you can’t get insurance.  So let’s say you have managed to fly under the wire, you are driving without a license because you know if you try to get on you are snatched, no license means that even if you wanted to have insurance, had the money to pay for insurance, you can’t get insurance.  What happens when that unlicensed illegal driver now has an accident?

Is it going to prevent crimes?

Here’s an interesting little part of  the law, it gives the citizens of Arizona the right to sue the government authorities who are not enforcing the law.  Mmmmm, I don’t know what the situation is in your hometown, but I have yet to hear of a city where there is “enough” law enforcement on the street, or where resources are not already stretched thin.  So now an officer is trying to verify somebody’s legal status, and he receives a call about shots being fired.  What does he do?  Does he open himself up to a law suit by not finishing verifying an individual’s status?   Is the presence of law enforcement patrolling the street diminished because they are too busy verifying legal status?

Is it racist?  Not if you are the right race.

Is it going to solve our immigration problem?  No.  It will simply push or re-route illegal immigrants to other states.

I am curious about the economics of this whole thing for Arizona.  2/3 of the Mr. and Mrs. Arizona think this is just a dandy idea.  Let’s pretend the law remains on the books, and it pushes illegal immigrants out of Arizona.  There goes the cheap labor, no I am not being harsh, I am being realistic.  You think Mr. and Mrs. Arizona are willing to work for the same wages that the illegal immigrant is?  I think not.  Then that means you have to pay people more, do you think that employers are just going to say ok, I am now going to pay a fair wage and not pass that onto you Mr. and Mrs. Consumer?

California tried this with Prop 187 in the early 1990’s, it was invalidated by the courts.  A federal court threw out much of that law because the state had overstepped its authority to engage in immigration matters. The Supremacy Clause of the United States Constitution similarly prevents Arizona from taking federal immigration enforcement into its own hands.

So why now did Arizona pass this legislation now?  Mid-term elections perhaps?  A chance for all those politicians to get some free press by pandering to Conservatives and Tea Partiers?…like let’s say…mmmm Arizona Gov. Brewer who faces a stiff primary challenge and needs conservatives to keep her in office?

We have Federal laws that just need to be enforced, that need to be update with workable, socially responsible methods and reasoning.  To do this, to make an effective change on the Federal level, that means that Democrats and the Party of Hell No are going to have to work together.  Ok, quit laughing…..

he Arizona Association of Chiefs of Police opposes SB 1070 because the group says the law would hobble law enforcement’s ability to “fulfill their many responsibilities in a timely manner.” But it said its chiefs will enforce the measure if it becomes law.Colorado Springs Chief Richard Myers, who weighed in on the issue Wednesday, said Arizona residents may not like what that enforcement looks like.

“If I have a shots-fired call or the potential to stop someone who might be checked for documented status, I’m going to do that before I respond to shots fired because I won’t get sued if don’t respond to shots fired,” he said.

Gascón said the bill also will have “catastrophic impacts on community policing.”

“People will be more hesitant to report crimes, and that will create some very, very tough circumstances for local police in dealing with crime issues in areas heavily visited by people here from other countries,” he said.

The law isn’t expected to change much for ICE, which has a program in place that has agents respond when local law-enforcement agencies ask for help determining someone’s immigration status, a process that is frequently handled over the phone.

In the federal fiscal year ending Sept. 30, ICE responded to more than 1,500 calls from law enforcement and took nearly 5,500 people into custody.

But if SB 1070 becomes law, the volume of calls will increase, and the agency may have to revert to enforcement priorities that federal authorities outlined last year.

These priorities break illegal immigrants into three categories and encourage agents to first detain and deport the most serious criminals such as murderers, rapists and robbers before moving on to minor drug offenders and thieves and then to “aliens who have been convicted of or arrested for other offenses.”

Brewer on Wednesday continued to be tight-lipped about what action she may take and when she would take it.

Her spokesman, Paul Senseman, said that the governor was aware of some law-enforcement groups’ criticism of SB 1070 and that she and her staff were looking through testimony of law-enforcement officials as the bill went through the legislative process.

Reporters Dustin Gardiner and Ginger Rough contributed to this article.

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It’s not difficult to see that crime rises when unemployment rises. Big mistake making this illegals afraid to go to work. The illiegals won’t leave, they will just get angry. Get ready for a huge spike in criminal activity. Phoenix does not have the manpower to stop the hundreds of thousands of undocumented people in our state. And the city is too underfunded to try.

Municipal at its best. Short-minded mistake that will indubitably raise long-term criminal activity in our neighborhoods beginning with a spike high in crime May-July 2010. We’ve got hundreds of thousands of illegals working in this state. Then we tell them if you go to work, we’ll find you and arrest you. How you like me now!!!

So now you’ve got an understaffed police and weak state budget because they were drunk on excessive municipal debt less than 4 fiscal quarters ago, and hundreds of thousands of illegals who are ready to commit illegal activity to put food on the table because they can’t work physical, sweaty labor at less than minimum wage.
George Bush once recommended a great idea of temporary work status through a guest worker program. If you destroy the only control you had (employment wages), you have zero control. He was smarter than many give him credit.
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What the hell is wrong with people in this country? These are not immigrants,or undocumented workers, they are invaders. They invade our country by the thousands,
we didn’t invite them in,and we don’t want them here. Not just the mexicans, but the
russians, somalis, and all the rest.They invade our country, some for work, but some for crime, they don’t want to be an american citizen, they just want what we have, and alot of them are willing to take it the first chance they get. So by your reasoning bigk, we should all just crawl into a corner for fear of crime rising, because we stand up for ourselves. Where’s your your backbone? Why are you so afraid to stand up and take some personal responsibility for the country that you live in? It’s past time for the citizens of this country to start protecting this country before it’s too late. Who’s going to help us? When was the last time some country gave us a few billion in aid?
We have been idiots, we work hard for what we have, we don’t get 2 or 3 paid holidays per year like the europeans, and we don’t even take the time to vote for representatives that will protect our way of life, we just let them give it away. And the moment somebody starts to do the right thing by us, we tuck our tails between our legs and run off scared of retaliation. No wonder half of the world don’t like us, we stand for nothing, and nobodies going to repect someone who doesn’t repect themselves. Personally, I don’t give a crap what the mexicans, or the french, or anybody else thinks of us, I care about what we think of ourselves. I’m proud to be an American and I think every other citizen should be as well. And if you don’t like it here then get the hell out.
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Actually, they pretty much DID have an open invitation; from employers that pay wages that only THEY would pay. That’s why a large number of Chinese and Irish immigrants came; to build America’s railroads. But, once they got here, they smuggled their whole families in. I STILL wonder… who taught them to park their cars on the lawn?


Why are you so close minded people? some need to learn how to spell also. We wouldn’t have a problem if we reformed immigration laws and stop making bills that are pretty much unconstitutional. I don’t see a third of you guys lock&load and stand Post! for free?, like the state government and feds gonna let citizens do that anyway, yeah moronic i will say. We all invaded this land. Nobody is originally from this land or we would be called native Americans, Oh yeah why are white people complaining for the so called invasion when you guys started the trend, look up the english, french and spanish so now your pissed because other people follow suit, and why do people forget that America is a continent and our country’s name is the United States of America when we people talk about South America they are not referring to Texas, Central America is not Indiana. So please read a book and I am not talking Glenn Beck or Sarah Palin Book either

I assume you have your “final solution”. I know I am a socialist, communist, etc., but you comments sound like something out of Germany in the 1930.

I agree with rebelde525. I am guessing you are Latin, and you make much more sense than most of these ….. I don’t know what to call them. Cause sadly the public education system did not teach them very well, and most just speak cause they can. Just because this country gives them that “freedom of speach”(so to say). I know many, many illegal immigrants that would love to become citizens and pay taxes, unlike some U.S citizens that complaint about taxes. There is so much more behind this issue, that if we all really knew what was going on we wouldn’t post such idiotic comments.

I didnt invite you here and now I wold like yo to go back to where you came from. Run along now.

To: Overthehill: I seriously doubt if you really know anything about Germany in the 1930’s. If so that would make you in your 90’s at the least and an immigrant yourself.

putuporshutup…you ROCK! Well said! If what the bigK said comes to fruition and local law enforcement can’t handle the load, we have several hundred thousand gun owners in this state that can lock&load and stand a POST!

sounds like a threat…..
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A lot of false statement in this post, all to support opposition to the bill.

Crime increases with unemployment. Does it? Show us the statisitics. What you meant to say is Crime SHOULD increase with unemployment.

“Illegals won’t go home”. More wishful thinking. Illegals have been going home, because of the limits already placed employing them.

The law does NOT address “undocumented” manpower. It addresses the actions police should take when they arrest a person.

First we pass a couple of laws to insure that anyone can get and carry a weapon almost anywhere they want — without training or experience. This pretty much guarantees that the number of undocumented or illegal immigrants who are armed increases dramatically. Then we pass laws to squeeze them out of the jobs they are currently working so that they will be desperate and angry. Next, we insist that our local police hunt them down and confront them.


What could possibly go wrong with that?
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You are confused, that is what is wrong, a2z.

Illegals cannot carry or even own a gun in the US, no matter what. The illegals carrying firearms probably don’t care that much about such laws, however. Contrary to your scare tactic, the law will have no effect on how many illegals illegally carry a weapon.

If we are to have angry people out of work, why not illegals, rather than citizens? You seem to favor the illegals for some reason. Is that because you are not out of work and can afford your compassion for them?

Right. But I thought the claim of all you knee-jerk tea-baggers was that these illegals were increasing our crime rates. You do realize that guns and ammunition are one of the top 10 items stolen in burglaries and robberies don’t you? Increasing the access to guns for all clearly does just that. It’s part of the law of unintended consequences. We have plenty of angry Arizonans already. They call them Tea Partiers.

You’re an idiot. Undocumented people who are ALREADY breaking the laws do not care about laws allowing OR forbidding them to carry.

Hey a2z. You have no clue do you?

At first I couldn’t figure out why gw787 posted two comments in a row to the same statement. Then I realized, gw had so much important and relevant data to bring to the discussion that it couldn’t all fit in one post. One needs to parcel such pertinent information up so that readers have a chance to digest it between boxes.
By the way, you do realize that greater access to gun ownership (legal guns) will result in a greater number of guns. And a greater number of guns increases the number of guns stolen (illegal guns). Of course you would have to be an idiot not to understand this connection. You would have to be clueless.

More confusion posted by a2z. It is hard to imagine that he is so completely ignorant of the laws governing gun ownership that he is unaware that the changes in laws had NO impact on the ability to OWN guns. Yet he makes his obtuse argument based on that falsehood. I will give him the benefit of doubt and assume that he is not THAT clueless and his confusion is deliberate.

Arrogance is not a substitute for intelligence, Bob8930. Your inability to understand simple causal relationships is staggering, but it is your coupling of that cognitive dissonance with stubborn arrogance that is especially notable.

a2z is projecting his/her fear to the public. Howerver, there appears to be several individuals that are not buying, including myself. Gun ownership, in the hands of citizens as well as the freedom to carry, will deter crime in this state. Why? Because any crminal who attempts to commit a crime against an armed citizen will not be able to tell their side of the story. Illegal aliens who are breaking the law and who choose to arm themselves deserve what is coming to them. If they want to be citizens, then they must go through the process. If we have to do it in their country then they must comply.

Based on your comments, additional reason for citizens be allowed to protect themselves, since the Po-PO will not be available.
Neighborhood patrols,
help your neighbors,
buy dogs,
get security systems,
carry and train with firearms
to push the illegals (as you identify them) to a more comfortable region…how about caly? Fine with me, if caly gets buried.
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Let’s assume for just a minute that every single illegal currently in Arizona becomes so scared that there is a mass exodus to California. That would be good for Arizona I suppose but that’s not really solving the problem. The illegal’s need to head home, not simply to another state.

Now, the Latinos can see what it feels like. I was walking home one night back in the 70s. I was stopped by the po-po, because we happened to live in a white, upper middle class neighborhood.

Getting them to move is all about baby-steps.
Start AZ, push them to cali, push them back across the border or just into an A/C or ship and send them to…how about china? I hear they have a great social system.

NO GUEST WORKERS LIB!!!! Move to Cali if you want illegals running the state
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Cali already has an immigrant running the state… Ahnold!

get some guns, learn to use them, and when someone attacks you, shoot them and kill them, the government isnt going to do everything for you, no matter how much you want them to

republican ideas. attack the messenger for the message. Don’t attack the illegals, attack the employer. Put some stiff fines on the employer and you wont have an illegal problem.

They will leave, why would they stay here and struggle to find work when they could go to california, or texas and work. Then once they leave we will no longer have to pay for healthcare, and schooling for hundreds of thousands of illegals, saving way more money than we will spend enforcing the law.
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And you won’t have their tax dollars on food, housing, clothing, power bills, cable, bills, etc. If you add that in to the lost revenue from tourist and conference dollars you better be ready to take a very large tax hike to make up for all these lost revenues. I hope that won’t happen, bet we are already starting to calls for boycotting AZ because of this law. Short sighted people can’t see beyond their noises!!!

If I recall correctly, a study was done that stated payments to illegals for government/health care services FAR exceeded any sales tax dollars from the money they spent. Think about it logically and you will see that this is correct. It would neam a NET GAIN for the State.

Are you saying 1070 are going to turn illegal aliens angry? Will they turn into the Incredible Hulk too?
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Maybe a incredibly sleepy hulks.

Hispanics already have a defensive, hauty ATTITUDE, WHEN IT COMES TO LAW AND ORDER…as is demanded of ALL Arizona/U.S. citizens. Hey, the Court in Sahuarita is run by a Hispanic who gives them all community service, dismisses HUGE FINES, AND 60 HR. OF COUNSELLING FOR “DRUG REHAB”…what a joke we have for “Law and Order”. The Pima Co. Sheriff, Dupnik, is on open “SANCTUARY” advocate…ALL THE POLICE, SHERIFF’S DEP., BP HAVE TO DO IS FOLLOW THE USUAL RULES OF LAW…as the Hispanics down here in Pima Co. who have any sense of responsibility…could be illegal or legal, because they conduct themselves in such a manner as to give no justification for being stopped! JUST DO YOUR JOB…AND YOU WILL FIND THE BAD GUYS/GALS…AS THEY GIVE THE MIDDLE FINGER TO COMPLIANCE WITH U.S. LEGAL ISSUES…AND MAKE THEMSELVES BAIT TO BE CAUGHT!!! AND, towns who have law enforcement who refuse to go by the law…they should be kicked out of office and citizens should file charges against them with the State Attorney General…this is OUR STATE, WE WANT TO BE PROUD OF IT…and WE AREN’T GOING TO TAKE THE CRIMINAL B.S. ANYMORE!!!!

Here’s a plan that should silence all the whiners:

1. Instruct the police to ask EVERYONE (of any color), as part of their normal questioning, and as they are conducting police business, if they are a legal immigrant or citizen of the U.S.

This will eliminate any PERCEIVED civil or constitutional rights violations! There can be no violation so long as the police are uniform in their approach.

2. Investigate every social services company using state or federal funds and de-fund them if any illegal aliens are found to be receiving aid. (believe me they are, 90% of all services are going to ILLEGAL ALIENS.)

This should provide plenty of money to deport any illegal found here, especially since most all of the support agencies that take government funding are defrauding our government by DOUBLE-BILLING for the services they provide!


You may be surprised to hear that most legal immigrants despise anyone that comes here illegally, it hurts their chances for employment, and ILLEGALS take public aid away from needy legal immigrants (and Americans). The money saved by throwing the bums out would, over time, pay for itself many times over. If we DOUBLE-BILLED the home country for each of their citizens we send back we could actually put a dent in our national debt…..now there is a novel idea!!

4. MANDATORY prison sentences for anyone found to be involved in any scheme to deceive law enforcement as to one’s citizenship. Aiding IN ANY WAY anyone here illegally.

Yeah, sounds pretty tough, but Mexico is already way ahead of us, they’ve had laws like this on their books for a very long time!

You libs are a HUGE joke, and hypocrisy at it’s most audacious. You come here sounding so concerned for the COST of enforcement of a law designed to do more good to our country and economy than harm, so noble of you to be so concerned.

All I want to know is where were all you budget-minded socialist puppets when your messiah was BUYING votes for his health care bill….that has sent this country into a financial tailspin that we may never recover from?

I guess based on your logic, we should just open the borders and allow them to take over the country completely. Next thing you see will be running gun battles in the streets like in Mexico now. They are here illegally period! They should be arrested and deported. Why are they allowed to come here and steal American identities, jobs, and not pay taxes?

Why should we allow this country to be another third world country like Mexico? Stupid logic on your part..

So crime is ok when we don’t have the money to enforce the laws on the books? Then do away with all criminal codes and fire the entire police force, the State and county AG andd their staffs. The budget problem will be solved instantly.

Didn’t agree with much with GW as president but have to agree that his policy for immigration made great sense and he didn’t get any credit for it. Would hate to be working in law enforcement in Arizona with all these new crazy laws with guns and now with immigration. Gonna be busy.
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Right now you have people who have been here for 10-15-20 years on guess permit. Once here they don’t leave. With the computer and copiers you can then change the permit to suite your desired time.
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Jerry; I will say that you are very much informed; since I suspect you are in the business of selling permits to illegals I want to get in contact with you RE: permits. ” Right now you have people who have been here for 10-15-20 years on guess permit. Once here they don’t leave. With the computer and copiers you can then change the permit to suite your desired time”

Jerry: You are massively misinformed as there is no such thing as a GUEST PERMIT or for that matter any TYPE of PERMIT. Study the INA before you look foolish!

The only thing this adds to the police is checking legal status when there’s probable cause. This is something the MCSO does all the time without any problems.

It’s only the departments with sanctuary policies that are whining about this minor duty.

Like Phoenix.

Maybe they can sell that private plane and hire a few more officers so they can DO THEIR JOB!
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Learn to read. The standard is reasonable suspicion, not probable cause. Huge difference. MCSO does it without any problems because they do it when people come to the jails, and they do it when they do sweeps. Otherwise, they’re not really making a dent in the numbers of undocumented people.

By the way, just to humor me, if you were a cop, what would cause you to be reasonably suspicious?

pintochico….. the lack of an Arizona Driver’s license would give me reasonable cause.

You probably also favor racial profiling although I bet you’d get steaming mad if it was done to you. What about the Hispanic US citizens that can be profiled, stopped and questioned based on appearance alone? That’s not right since racial profiling is illegal. Why should a natural born Hispanic American or legalized Hispanic citizen have to end up being profiled simply because of the way they look or appear to others? Racial profiling is inconvenient and illegal. Would you like it if you were stopped and profiled? Or how about someone assuming you’re something you’re not, just because of the way you look? What if you were thought to be a KKK member just because you’re White? How would you feel?

The out-of-staters need some imodium for the problem they have with their mouths. Gascon isn’t here, shut the (“what”) up.

Those who ARE here…”Bill supporters say it would do just the opposite.

Mark Spencer, president of the Phoenix Law Enforcement Association, which represents Phoenix police officers, has said his group supports the measure because it would give local authorities the ability to better enforce the law.

“To hinder or restrict local law enforcement from partnering with their federal counterparts in ICE or Border Patrol increases the risk of danger not only for the community but also for officers,” he said.

Officer Justin Harris, president of the Glendale Law Enforcement Association, said that by taking illegal immigrants off the streets, police will be preventing crimes they might commit.

“If we can focus on stopping the less-serious crime, that in itself stops crime,” Harris said.”

Stop the thieving, raping, killing illegals. Robert Krentz. How many more US citizens need to lose loved ones?

Sign it, Gov Brewer.
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Interesting that you pick the quote from Officer Justin Harris, president of the Glendale Law Enforcement Association, “by taking illegal immigrants off the streets, police will be preventing crimes they might commit.”
That may well be true, but following his logic, if we want to completely eliminate crime in our state, simply arrest every man, woman, and child. Presto, no crimes will be committed.
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Illegal aliens ARE criminals factoring in false SSN’s, ID theft, non reporting of income, etc.———ALL of which are Federal crimes.

No, arkypol.

Not everyone is a criminal. Illegals are already lawbreakers. Selectively removing lawbreakers from the streets WILL reduce the likelihood that they will beak more laws.

but remember the illegal are already committing a crime if we got rid of them we would be much better off, sign the bill gov

Dumb analysis/interpretation!!!

I copied from the author’s article, simple.

bestisyet2comE and Wile, edge well said and good points made…Sign the bill Gov Brewer

I’m going to laugh hysterically if Obama chooses to get involved. That would all but ensure him of being a 1 term no-wonder.

The majority in this state AND the country want immigration laws enforced. And they will not be forgiving should Obama try and stop states from cleaning up his federal mess.
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WileE that’s not true this is national and other States are against this sb1070

Obama LOVES THIS…SINCE AZ. IS A PURPLE STATE…HE THINKS HE CAN GET MORE “ILLEGAL VOTERS” AS HE DID LAST TIME…however, with this law it will also tighten the voter rolls. When I called today to make sure I am on the “early ballot” list, I was asked a whole lot of questions…that the illegals who have voted had better be able to remember…early or at the polls. By the way, illegals are like cockroaches in Chicago, and I am sure he and his “FRIENDS” WOULD LIKE NOTHING BETTER TO SEE THE ABILITY TO GET RID OF A BUNCH OF THEM UP THERE!!! THIS WHOLE COUNTRY IS FED UP…IT’S JUST THAT WE HAVE THE *ALLS TO START THE BALL ROLLING!!!! FOR ONCE, AZ. IS ON THE FOREFRONT OF “REAL CHANGE” IN THIS COUNTRY!!!

This is not Obama’s mess. This has been happening forever.

Cite your sources for your claim of the “majority.”

bestis yet, you are absolutely right. most of the mouthbreathers bitching about this bill DON’T EVEN LIVE HERE! I’m sick of people from Cali, Mexico, and DC trying to tell us how to solve our problems, when they can’t even get a handle on their own. 95% of Arizonans I’ve talked to regarding this bill can’t wait for it to pass.
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Illegal is illegal, whether it is someone who moved here illegally or a police officer who is racially profiling. Both are illegal and I’m against both.

If people from other states are complaining it is simply because they cannot comprehend the problems illegals cause. From jobs being unavailable to citizens to higher medical costs to lower average wages.

But I have a solution. We have over half a million illegals. They can have them and then let us know how it impacts them in a few years.

I agree with having Bill 1070 becoming law. If the Federal Government can’t or won’t enforce the Laws of this land, then the heck with them! As an illegal…you have no rights other than the right to leave this country!!

Here’s a joke for you…


300 illegal’s working in Phoenix Valley all with FORGED PAPERS – I can see many American Citizens NEEDING and WANTING those jobs! By the way, this wasn’t a Sheriff Joe issue…it was ICE. Just wanted to make sure that the whiners understand that…you know how they are?!

I wonder who is really complaining about that…is it the legal citizen or the illegal who is violating the law or that Un-American Pro-Amnesty group leaders who are making money off the illegal’s by representing them, the media so they can boost their ratings, the church who can get away with child molesting and not be punished for the crime in a court of law like the average citizen would be? Answer those questions before you think there’s a problem with our laws.

I agree that the Federal Government should be and always should have ENFORCED OUR IMMIGRATION LAWS like other foreign nations do. We seem to let it slide and based on politics, WE JUST LOOK GOOD ON PAPER BUT FAIL to do what LAWMAKERS pass into law or shall I say, they CREATE and DROP THE BALL. A pretty lousy basketball team if you ask me!

It’s amazing that if those say we are racial profiling, are they possibly the ones that have something to hide? In law enforcement, it is better to assess a situation and try to intervene in “crime prevention” than letting crimes happen. In other words, ‘OFFENDER PROFILING’ is the term that should be used. For those who feel that their feelings are hurt if they are suspected of wrongdoing, they prefer to say that law enforcement is ‘racial profiling’. You know, the ones that claim some excuse for their own doings. The media loves to use these terms, some Hispanic congressman like to use the term because if ‘AMNESTY’ is ever granted, that they will win more voters who came here illegally. Pretty stupid when you think that they might lose voters who are Caucasian or any other color?? I guess you call that “political transfusion” to stay alive in a career that is self-serving rather than self-giving!! I will not say that all crimes are done by illegal’s but the crimes committed are in fact done by those we hear about…human traffic smuggling and drug trafficking from the southern borders for starters. If we don’t do offender profiling, what is worse, seeing suspicious activity or persons and say we can’t do anything about it because it might be profiling? Whose will be blamed for not doing anything, law enforcement, your elected officials, your neighbor, your relative, and your friends?? Who are you going to blame for a tragedy, personal/property or a death, when it is ‘you’ who could have prevented it?
My complaint is that if the few police chiefs are saying that it will cost more money to enforce the immigration laws, how can they really say that? If you are working a shift, the severity of crimes get the attention first…why are they saying that this law makes it a PRIORITY over other crimes and that it drains resources? Seems like an outright excuse!! So you can’t have as many donuts! The more we do to protect the community as a whole, the better it is for everyone, quote “EVERYONE”! ! I did not hear or read that this law makes it a PRIORITY but a means to rid ourselves of being ignorant to FEDERAL LAWS that the federal government has failed to enforce.
That no additional funding to train officers in how to judge reasonable suspicion?? What the heck was the training for to even become a police officer??!! If you weren’t trained to be more observant, to know the difference between reasonable and unreasonable suspicion, then you should not be involved in law enforcement to begin with! I say again…OFFENDER PROFILING is what this is all about. It is not about RACIAL PROFILING as opponents are suggesting.

Now is it the illegal’s fault for living here illegally? No, it is our own government, at city, county, state and federal levels who have failed. Is it their fault for being here illegally? YES! Who is paying for their misgivings, the American taxpayer!! Now who is at fault for this situation we are in? Think this through clearly as the real answer is a no-brainer!!
There is 1 reply to this comment. Collapse

The illegal alien apologists only feel identity theft to be a crime when white people do it. If illegals are stealing identities to “better their lives” then that makes it OK.
There are 2 replies to this comment. Expand Collapse

Yeah, what the (inappropriate term) is up with that? I’ve been a victim of identity theft, and if I ever run into that guy, I’m going to drag his ass across the border myself.

Edge, you’re assuming that the perpetrator was an illegal alien. The person who stole my identity was a white guy and I’m not even white!

The TRUE is that People supporting Bill 1070 are afraid that Hispanics will be the majority an a few years and will be voting for Hispanics politicians and soon(very soon!) they will have the POWER in this beautiful country.. ABURRRR !!
There are 3 replies to this comment. Collapse

Latinos are ALREADY the majority in their home countries. Fat lot of good that did them or their home countries. For that matter, the richest man in the world, Carlos Slim Helu, is “Mexican” but is really the son of LEBANESE immigrants to that country. Shows you how little Mexicans are able to get ahead in their own country while immigrants outdo them.

Thats the fear of the Good Old boys club in Washington. But they are more afraid of their contributors not giving them money. Thats why you haven’t seen any bill being passed that puts any real damages to an employer. They don’t want the supports of the Republican party to have to pay for any mistakes.

As we see the politicians in Mexico are great, yeah right – the country has been beyond corrupt.
There are 3 replies to this comment. Expand Collapse

Just like in AZ.

The USA isn’t perfect either wise guy, no country on this earth is. As a nation we just like to act superior to others we feel are beneath us.

Jake85018 seems those from Mexico seem our political set up (including the politicians) – why else are they all trying to get here? Is Mexico running a better more honest system. I didn’t say our system was perfect, but I would say it is better (superior).

Also, real mature with the wise guy name calling

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Posted in dirty politics, immigration, racism, US News | Tagged: , , | 1 Comment »

A State of Shame – Arizona Racial Profiling or US Dept. of State Should Issue Travel Warnings for Arizona

Posted by politicalmonkey2010 on April 25, 2010

President Obama was quite kind when he said he believed that Arizona was “misguided” in the new law requiring people to be able to provide proof of citizenship or legal entry.  It is racial profiling, plain and simple, you can dress it up any way you want to, it is what it is.  I am quite convinced that the state of Arizona has absolutely no moral compass with the passing of the most recent legislation.  Since an appeal to what is right and wrong, an appeal to what this country was founded on, the principles of America being a great melting pot, the best option to bring the point home to Arizona is to boycott it.  Hit ’em in the pocket book.  Exactly how tho?  I thought, I pondered, I mused..then it hit me, tourism!  I began my search on the net and went to this site:  http://www.arizonaguide.com/arizona-travel-info/faqs# where I clicked on the live help button, and chatted with Maria.  Here’s the transcript:

Support Chat


Enter an email address where the chat transcript will be sent after the chat ends.
Your Email:
Your Name:
Thanks for contacting us. An operator will be with you shortly…

This window requires Javascript support.
Please enable scripting.

[Visitor] hi.. i have a few questions
[Maria_K] Hi, I’m Maria_K. How may I help you?
[Visitor] yes Maria i am wondering with this new immigration law, if you have people coming in from other states, exactly how does that affect them?
[Maria_K] For more information on this subject you can contact Kiva Couchon (pronounced “coo shawn”) her contact information is kcouchon@azot.gov or 602-364-3724.

[Visitor] ok, well another question i have is…how much revenue does tourism bring to the state of Arizona?
[Maria_K] One minute please while I work on this for you.
[Visitor] ok

[Maria_K] I found this for 2008, I am sure the numbers have increased but it will give you an idea http://azot.gov/section.aspx?sid=29

[Visitor]one final question, am i the only person who you have talked to about visiting from another state and immigration?
[Maria_K] No, and I am sure you won’t be the last, but you are one of  the nicer ones.
[Visitor] i’ve done customer service..it is a challenge, hang in there maria! and thanks
Send Message:

So I looked at the info Maria gave me, specifically http://azot.gov/documents/Arizona%202008%20Tourism%20Facts.pdf

Here are some interesting stats:

76% of the overnight visitors to Arizona were from Mexico, or 3.8 million people, now I wonder if I owned a motel in Arizona and the economy is tough, and now with this legislation I have just risked offending over 3/4 of my customer base, I think my ass would be twitching…not to mention the restaurants, and all the other money that is spent in conjunction with visiting Arizona.

Take some time, look at the stats, and tell me that if the state of Arizona were a business, could they afford to have this type of marketing to make their business successful?  The US Dept. of State often puts out travel warnings for Americans traveling abroad, perhaps now they need to include a domestic travel warning for Arizona.

Then as the day progressed, hang on to your hats I am going to quote a Fox news story….

Phoenix Mayor: Arizona Immigration Law Puts Seniors, Kids at Risk of Being Arrested


Phoenix Mayor Phil Gordon says seniors, kids and out-of-staters should be wary of the Arizona immigration bill signed into law this past week — warning that it puts them at risk of being arrested.

Phoenix Mayor Phil Gordon says seniors, kids and out-of-staters should be wary of the Arizona immigration bill signed into law this past week — warning that it puts them at risk of being arrested.

The law makes illegal immigration a state crime. It gives police the authority to question people about their immigration status and arrest those who cannot show documentation to establish their legal residency.

Gordon, a staunch opponent of the state law, said that means anyone who doesn’t carry an Arizona license — children under 16, seniors who don’t drive and people from out of state — could be “at risk of being arrested and turned over to (Immigration and Customs Enforcement).”

“It tramples civil rights,” Gordon told Fox News on Sunday. “Now everyone has to show and prove that they’re a legal resident or citizen.”

The mayor of Arizona’s largest city is at odds with Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer, who signed the bill Friday and described the legislation as her state’s answer to “decades of inaction and misguided policy” in Washington.

It’s unclear whether non-state license holders would be as susceptible to arrest as Gordon described.

A “valid Arizona” driver’s license is just one of several types of documentation the law says would count as proof of residency.


I urge you to all contact the state of Arizona, tell them your dollars will not be spent in Arizona!  I know my dollars won’t be going there!  I have contacted them, I’ll let you know that if I ever get a response.  At the end of this entry is  a list of phone numbers and emails.

Never in my life would I have thought that this would happen in the US of A.  It reeks of Nazism – ironic isn’t it, Pres. Obama has been called everything from a socialist to a Nazi and yet it is the state of Arizona, under Republican leadership that has in effect instituted a very similar policy that the Nazi’s had, checking “papers”.    Shall we tattoo those people who have violated the law?  Or shall we tattoo those people who are here legally?  Which would make it more convenient?  What is next?  If your name doesn’t sound quite “right” meaning it isn’t John “my ass is lily white and I’m a Republican” Jones, well perhaps Arizona could also solve that problem too.

Yes there is a problem with illegal aliens, but this is not the solution.  This is a solution aimed at getting those right winged Tea Party, gun toting, racially biased white folks all worked up.  It is an agenda of fear.  It is a coward’s agenda, I cannot help but believe that the founding father’s are turning in their graves.


First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out —
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out —
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out —
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me — and there was no one left to speak for me.
WE MUST SPEAK OUT, it is only a matter of time before you and I do not fit into whatever somebody else deems as valuable.  Do not let this happen.

I am ashamed of Arizona and I am going to let them know it with my emails and I am keeping my lily white ass and my dollars OUT of Arizona!

Contact them:

Gov. of Az.  Jan Brewer http://azgovernor.gov/Contact.asp

Phone (602)
Fax (602)
Paula Aboud 28 D paboud@azleg.gov 314 926-5262 926-3429
Amanda Aguirre 24 D aaguirre@azleg.gov 314 926-4139 417-3184
Carolyn S. Allen 8 R callen@azleg.gov 303 926-4480 417-3155
Sylvia Allen 5 R sallen@azleg.gov 307 926-5219 417-3005
Manuel V. “Manny” Alvarez 25 D malvarez@azleg.gov 311 926-5895 417-3025
Frank Antenori 30 R fantenori@azleg.gov 304 926-5683 417-3147
David Braswell 6 R dbraswell@azleg.gov 304 926-5284 417-3106
Ed Bunch 7 R ebunch@azleg.gov 302 926-4916 417-3250
Robert “Bob” Burns
9 R rburns@azleg.gov 204 926-5993 417-3225
Meg Burton Cahill 17 D mburtoncahill@azleg.gov 313 926-4124 417-3245
Ken Cheuvront 15 D kcheuvront@azleg.gov 315 926-5325 417-3149
Jorge Luis Garcia
Minority Leader
27 D jgarcia@azleg.gov 213 926-4171 417-3262
Pamela Gorman 6 R Vacated seat on 1/25/2010
Ron Gould 3 R rgould@azleg.gov 303 926-4138 417-3165
Chuck Gray
Majority Leader
19 R cgray@azleg.gov 212 926-5288 417-3161
Linda Gray 10 R lgray@azleg.gov 309 926-3376 417-3253
Albert Hale 2 D ahale@azleg.gov 313 926-4323 417-3160
Jack W. Harper 4 R jharper@azleg.gov 301 926-4178 417-3154
John Huppenthal 20 R jhuppenthal@azleg.gov 300 926-5261 417-3257
Leah Landrum Taylor 16 D llandrumtaylor@azleg.gov 312 926-3830 417-3148
Barbara Leff
President Pro Tempore
11 R bleff@azleg.gov 302 926-4486 417-3270
Linda Lopez
Minority Whip
29 D llopez@azleg.gov 315 926-4089 417-3029
Debbie McCune Davis 14 D dmccunedavis@azleg.gov 311 926-4485 926-3429
Al Melvin 26 R amelvin@azleg.gov 303 926-4326 417-3159
Richard Miranda 13 D rmiranda@azleg.gov 308 926-5911 417-3271
John Nelson 12 R jnelson@azleg.gov 305 926-5872 417-3112
Jonathan Paton 30 R Vacated seat on 2/22/2010
Russell Pearce 18 R rpearce@azleg.gov 110 926-5760 417-3118
Steve Pierce
Majority Whip
1 R spierce@azleg.gov 212 926-5584 926-3429
Rebecca Rios
Assistant Minority Leader
23 D rrios@azleg.gov 213 926-5685 417-3167
Jay Tibshraeny 21 R jtibshraeny@azleg.gov 306 926-4481 417-3252
Thayer Verschoor 22 R tverschoor@azleg.gov 310 926-4136 417-3220
Jim Waring 7 R Vacated seat on 1/28/2010

House Roster

Name Sort By Name
District Sort By District
Phone (602)
Fax (602)
Edward Ableser 17 D eableser@azleg.gov 331 926-4118 417-3164
Kirk Adams
Speaker of the House
19 R kadams@azleg.gov 221 926-5495 417-3019
Frank Antenori 30 R Vacated seat on 3/4/2010
Cecil P. Ash 18 R cash@azleg.gov 127 926-3160 417-3151
Ray Barnes 7 R rbarnes@azleg.gov 110 926-5503 417-3107
Nancy K. Barto 7 R nbarto@azleg.gov 112 926-5766 417-3011
Andy Biggs 22 R abiggs@azleg.gov 312 926-4371 417-3022
Tom Boone 4 R tboone@azleg.gov 313 926-3297 417-3004
David Bradley 28 D dbradley@azleg.gov 337 926-3300 417-3028
Jack A. Brown 5 D jbrown@azleg.gov 316 926-4129 417-3010
Judy M. Burges 4 R jburges@azleg.gov 302 926-5861 417-3104
Olivia Cajero Bedford 27 D ocajerobedford@azleg.gov 338 926-5835 417-3027
Chad Campbell
Minority Whip
14 D chcampbell@azleg.gov 333 926-3026 417-3037
Cloves C. Campbell, Jr. 16 D clcampbell@azleg.gov 124 926-3042 417-3117
Tom Chabin 2 D tchabin@azleg.gov 318 926-5160 417-3002
Steve Court 18 R scourt@azleg.gov 118 926-4467 417-3018
Rich Crandall 19 R rcrandall@azleg.gov 113 926-3020 417-3119
Sam Crump 6 R Vacated seat on 2/1/2010
Christopher Deschene 2 D cdeschene@azleg.gov 325 926-5862 417-3102
Adam Driggs 11 R adriggs@azleg.gov 222 926-3016 417-3007
Steve Farley 28 D sfarley@azleg.gov 119 926-3022 417-3128
Patricia V. Fleming 25 D pfleming@azleg.gov 125 926-5836 417-3125
Martha Garcia 13 D mgarcia@azleg.gov 335 926-5830 417-3113
Doris Goodale 3 R dgoodale@azleg.gov 310 926-5408 417-3103
David Gowan 30 R dgowan@azleg.gov 117 926-3312 417-3130
Matt Heinz 29 D mheinz@azleg.gov 126 926-3424 417-3129
Laurin Hendrix 22 R lhendrix@azleg.gov 344 926-5735 417-3122
Russell L. Jones 24 R rjones@azleg.gov 345 926-3002 417-3124
John Kavanagh 8 R jkavanagh@azleg.gov 114 926-5170 417-3108
Bill Konopnicki 5 R bkonopnicki@azleg.gov 219 926-5409 417-3105
Debbie Lesko 9 R dlesko@azleg.gov 129 926-5413 417-3109
Phil Lopes 27 D plopes@azleg.gov 330 926-3278 417-3127
David Lujan
Minority Leader
15 D dlujan@azleg.gov 320 926-5829 417-3115
Lucy Mason 1 R lmason@azleg.gov 304 926-5874 417-3001
John McComish
Majority Leader
20 R jmccomish@azleg.gov 206 926-5898 417-3020
Barbara McGuire 23 D bmcguire@azleg.gov 322 926-3012 417-3123
Nancy McLain 3 R nmclain@azleg.gov 303 926-5051 417-3003
Eric Meyer 11 D emeyer@azleg.gov 121 926-3037 417-3111
Robert Meza 14 D rmeza@azleg.gov 339 926-3425 417-3114
Ben R. Miranda 16 D bmiranda@azleg.gov 323 926-4893 417-3116
Steve B. Montenegro 12 R smontenegro@azleg.gov 309 926-5955 417-3168
Rick Murphy 9 R rmurphy@azleg.gov 111 926-3255 417-3009
Warde V. Nichols 21 R wnichols@azleg.gov 306 926-5168 417-3021
Lynne Pancrazi 24 D lpancrazi@azleg.gov 324 926-3004 417-3179
Daniel Patterson 29 D dpatterson@azleg.gov 123 926-5342 417-3169
Frank Pratt 23 R fpratt@azleg.gov 115 926-5761 417-3023
Doug Quelland 10 R dquelland@azleg.gov 128 926-3024 417-3110
Michele Reagan 8 R mreagan@azleg.gov 220 926-5828 417-3008
Amanda A. Reeve 6 R areeve@azleg.gov 342 926-3014 417-3048
David Schapira 17 D dschapira@azleg.gov 332 926-3028 417-3038
Carl Seel 6 R cseel@azleg.gov 341 926-3018 417-3006
Kyrsten Sinema
Assistant Minority Leader
15 D ksinema@azleg.gov 321 926-5058 417-3015
David W. Stevens 25 R dstevens@azleg.gov 116 926-4321 417-3146
Andrew M. Tobin
Majority Whip
1 R atobin@azleg.gov 217 926-5172 417-3085
Anna Tovar 13 D atovar@azleg.gov 325 926-3392 417-3013
Ted Vogt 30 R tvogt@azleg.gov 307 926-3235 417-3030
Rae Waters 20 D rwaters@azleg.gov 122 926-5550 417-3120
Jim Weiers 10 R jweiers@azleg.gov 223 926-4173 417-3153
Jerry Weiers 12 R jpweiers@azleg.gov 131 926-5894 417-3012
Vic Williams 26 R vwilliams@azleg.gov 308 926-5839 417-3026
Steven B. Yarbrough
Speaker Pro Tempore
21 R syarbrough@azleg.gov 218 926-5863 417-3121
Nancy Young Wright 26 D nyoungwright@azleg.gov 329 926-3398 417-3126

Posted in fox news, immigration, racism, US News, US Politics | Tagged: , , | 5 Comments »

Palin Family Circus in Birmingham or Just Another Tea Party For Dad and Brother

Posted by politicalmonkey2010 on April 24, 2010

Hats off to gesvol!  Indeed he did take one for the team!  He actually went to a Tea Party Event, and while it was not hosted by Sarah Palin, it did involve the family, specifically her father and brother…one wonders what type of speaking fee they charge?

Must read blog: http://gesvol.wordpress.com/2010/04/16/

Posted in sarah palin, Tea Party | Tagged: , | Leave a Comment »

Stop Glen Beck

Posted by politicalmonkey2010 on April 23, 2010

This is a sight  and site worth supporting, http://stopbeck.com/

Posted in dirty politics, fox news | Tagged: , | Leave a Comment »

Anderson Cooper – Birther’s Vs. Reality

Posted by politicalmonkey2010 on April 23, 2010

Anderson Cooper is my new hero!  He is painfully polite, and I so enjoyed watching him humiliate Arizona  Republican State Rep. Cecil Ash.  Cooper systematically disemboweled the “birther” argument.  For those not familiar with this idea, it is that Pres. Obama was not born in the USA.  Really, sometimes it is just beyond me that people actually waste time promoting these ideas, but what is even more disturbing your Arizona tax dollars are being spent on it, and being spent by a man – Cecil Ash who obviously deserves to be removed from office if this is his political claim to fame –  passing laws in Arizona that would require presidential candidates to submit their birth certificates in order to get ballot access for the election.

Here are some highlights…

ASH: Anderson, I think there’s been a lot of controversy over the issue, created a division among a lot of people in the United States, for better or worse, many people don’t believe he is a U.s. citizen, they believe he has divided loyalties, i suppose you could say.
COOPER: Right, but those people are wrong, he is a U.S. citizen.

ASH: You’re telling me that he’s wrong. I’ve never investigated that. If he is, he has nothing to fear.

COOPER: But I mean the information is out there, it has been released, it has been shown there are some people who don’t believe it but there are also some people that believe the moon is made out of cheese. You can say you never investigated it but I think you would probably say the moon is not made out of cheese.
ASH: I certainly would.

Watch the whole thing..


Posted in dirty politics, racism, US Politics | Tagged: , , | Leave a Comment »

Netanyahu – with Friends Like You Who Needs Enemies?

Posted by politicalmonkey2010 on April 23, 2010

“I am saying one thing: there will be no freeze in Jerusalem,” Mr Netanyahu said on Israel’s Channel 2 TV.

Although Netanyahu was repeating his long-standing position, the timing of the statement threatened to undermine s latest efforts to restart peace talks.  The U.S. State Department responded Thursday to remarks by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who declared Israel would not stop building in East Jerusalem, saying that the status quo in the Middle East “is not sustainable.”  Earlier Thursday, Netanyahu announced that Israel does not intend to comply with the American demand that it halt settlement construction in East Jerusalem.

Obama reportedly made the demand for an East Jerusalem construction freeze, along with other requests, in a tense White House meeting with Netanyahu on March 23.

Obama’s administration had seen been awaiting Netanyahu’s reply, while the latter had deliberated with his top ministers on possible confidence-building measures that would allow a revival of peace talks with the Palestinians.

According to the report in the Wall Street Journal, Netanyahu rejected the demand on East Jerusalem, but did agree to other confidence-building measures, such as allowing the opening of PA institutions in the eastern part of the city, transferring additional West Bank territory to Palestinian security control and agreeing to discuss all the core issues of the conflict during proximity talks with the PA, instead of insisting that these issues only be discussed in direct talks.

Let’s review a bit on Jerusalem…

1. You may recall that on Netanyahu’s last visit to the US he proudly stated that Israel will continue to build in East Jerusalem

2. When VP Biden was in Israel the Israeli government announced an additional 1,600 new housing structures in East Jerusalem.

So what’s the deal about East Jerusalem you ask?

Here is the most concise and well written brief explanation http://www.juancole.com/2010/03/top-ten-reasons-east-jerusalem-does-not.html

Top Ten Reasons East Jerusalem does not belong to Jewish-Israelis

Posted by Juan on March 23, 2010

Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu told the American Israel Public Affairs Council on Monday that “Jerusalem is not a settlement.” He continued that the historical connection between the Jewish people and the land of Israel cannot be denied. He added that neither could the historical connection between the Jewish people and Jerusalem. He insisted, “The Jewish people were building Jerusalem 3,000 years ago and the Jewish people are building Jerusalem today.” He said, “Jerusalem is not a settlement. It is our capital.” He told his applauding audience of 7500 that he was simply following the policies of all Israeli governments since the 1967 conquest of Jerusalem in the Six Day War.

Netanyahu mixed together Romantic-nationalist cliches with a series of historically false assertions. But even more important was everything he left out of the history, and his citation of his warped and inaccurate history instead of considering laws, rights or common human decency toward others not of his ethnic group.

So here are the reasons that Netanyahu is profoundly wrong, and East Jerusalem does not belong to him.

1. In international law, East Jerusalem is occupied territory, as are the parts of the West Bank that Israel unilaterally annexed to its district of Jerusalem. The Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949 and the Hague Regulations of 1907 forbid occupying powers to alter the lifeways of civilians who are occupied, and forbid the settling of people from the occupiers’ country in the occupied territory. Israel’s expulsion of Palestinians from their homes in East Jerusalem, its usurpation of Palestinian property there, and its settling of Israelis on Palestinian land are all gross violations of international law. Israeli claims that they are not occupying Palestinians because the Palestinians have no state are cruel and tautological. Israeli claims that they are building on empty territory are laughable. My back yard is empty, but that does not give Netanyahu the right to put up an apartment complex on it.

2. Israeli governments have not in fact been united or consistent about what to do with East Jerusalem and the West Bank, contrary to what Netanyahu says. The Galili Plan for settlements in the West Bank was adopted only in 1973. Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin gave undertakings as part of the Oslo Peace Process to withdraw from Palestinian territory and grant Palestinians a state, promises for which he was assassinated by the Israeli far right (elements of which are now supporting Netanyahu’s government). As late as 2000, then Prime Minister Ehud Barak claims that he gave oral assurances that Palestinians could have almost all of the West Bank and could have some arrangement by which East Jerusalem could be its capital. Netanyahu tried to give the impression that far rightwing Likud policy on East Jerusalem and the West Bank has been shared by all previous Israeli governments, but this is simply not true.

3. Romantic nationalism imagines a “people” as eternal and as having an eternal connection with a specific piece of land. This way of thinking is fantastic and mythological. Peoples are formed and change and sometimes cease to be, though they might have descendants who abandoned that religion or ethnicity or language. Human beings have moved all around and are not directly tied to any territory in an exclusive way, since many groups have lived on most pieces of land. Jerusalem was not founded by Jews, i.e. adherents of the Jewish religion. It was founded between 3000 BCE and 2600 BCE by a West Semitic people or possibly the Canaanites, the common ancestors of Palestinians, Lebanese, many Syrians and Jordanians, and many Jews. But when it was founded Jews did not exist.

4. Jerusalem was founded in honor of the ancient god Shalem. It does not mean City of Peace but rather ‘built-up place of Shalem.”

5. The “Jewish people” were not building Jerusalem 3000 years ago, i.e. 1000 BCE. First of all, it is not clear when exactly Judaism as a religion centered on the worship of the one God took firm form. It appears to have been a late development since no evidence of worship of anything but ordinary Canaanite deities has been found in archeological sites through 1000 BCE. There was no invasion of geographical Palestine from Egypt by former slaves in the 1200s BCE. The pyramids had been built much earlier and had not used slave labor. The chronicle of the events of the reign of Ramses II on the wall in Luxor does not know about any major slave revolts or flights by same into the Sinai peninsula. Egyptian sources never heard of Moses or the 10 plagues & etc. Jews and Judaism emerged from a certain social class of Canaanites over a period of centuries inside Palestine.

6. Jerusalem not only was not being built by the likely then non-existent “Jewish people” in 1000 BCE, but Jerusalem probably was not even inhabited at that point in history. Jerusalem appears to have been abandoned between 1000 BCE and 900 BCE, the traditional dates for the united kingdom under David and Solomon. So Jerusalem was not ‘the city of David,’ since there was no city when he is said to have lived. No sign of magnificent palaces or great states has been found in the archeology of this period, and the Assyrian tablets, which recorded even minor events throughout the Middle East, such as the actions of Arab queens, don’t know about any great kingdom of David and Solomon in geographical Palestine.

7. Since archeology does not show the existence of a Jewish kingdom or kingdoms in the so-called First Temple Period, it is not clear when exactly the Jewish people would have ruled Jerusalem except for the Hasmonean Kingdom. The Assyrians conquered Jerusalem in 722. The Babylonians took it in 597 and ruled it until they were themselves conquered in 539 BCE by the Achaemenids of ancient Iran, who ruled Jerusalem until Alexander the Great took the Levant in the 330s BCE. Alexander’s descendants, the Ptolemies ruled Jerusalem until 198 when Alexander’s other descendants, the Seleucids, took the city. With the Maccabean Revolt in 168 BCE, the Jewish Hasmonean kingdom did rule Jerusalem until 37 BCE, though Antigonus II Mattathias, the last Hasmonean, only took over Jerusalem with the help of the Parthian dynasty in 40 BCE. Herod ruled 37 BCE until the Romans conquered what they called Palestine in 6 CE (CE= ‘Common Era’ or what Christians call AD). The Romans and then the Eastern Roman Empire of Byzantium ruled Jerusalem from 6 CE until 614 CE when the Iranian Sasanian Empire Conquered it, ruling until 629 CE when the Byzantines took it back.

The Muslims conquered Jerusalem in 638 and ruled it until 1099 when the Crusaders conquered it. The Crusaders killed or expelled Jews and Muslims from the city. The Muslims under Saladin took it back in 1187 CE and allowed Jews to return, and Muslims ruled it until the end of World War I, or altogether for about 1192 years.

Adherents of Judaism did not found Jerusalem. It existed for perhaps 2700 years before anything we might recognize as Judaism arose. Jewish rule may have been no longer than 170 years or so, i.e., the kingdom of the Hasmoneans.

8. Therefore if historical building of Jerusalem and historical connection with Jerusalem establishes sovereignty over it as Netanyahu claims, here are the groups that have the greatest claim to the city:

A. The Muslims, who ruled it and built it over 1191 years.

B. The Egyptians, who ruled it as a vassal state for several hundred years in the second millennium BCE.

C. The Italians, who ruled it about 444 years until the fall of the Roman Empire in 450 CE.

D. The Iranians, who ruled it for 205 years under the Achaemenids, for three years under the Parthians (insofar as the last Hasmonean was actually their vassal), and for 15 years under the Sasanids.

E. The Greeks, who ruled it for over 160 years if we count the Ptolemys and Seleucids as Greek. If we count them as Egyptians and Syrians, that would increase the Egyptian claim and introduce a Syrian one.

F. The successor states to the Byzantines, which could be either Greece or Turkey, who ruled it 188 years, though if we consider the heir to be Greece and add in the time the Hellenistic Greek dynasties ruled it, that would give Greece nearly 350 years as ruler of Jerusalem.

G. There is an Iraqi claim to Jerusalem based on the Assyrian and Babylonian conquests, as well as perhaps the rule of the Ayyubids (Saladin’s dynasty), who were Kurds from Iraq.

9. Of course, Jews are historically connected to Jerusalem by the Temple, whenever that connection is dated to. But that link mostly was pursued when Jews were not in political control of the city, under Iranian, Greek and Roman rule. It cannot therefore be deployed to make a demand for political control of the whole city.

10. The Jews of Jerusalem and the rest of Palestine did not for the most part leave after the failure of the Bar Kochba revolt against the Romans in 136 CE. They continued to live there and to farm in Palestine under Roman rule and then Byzantine. They gradually converted to Christianity. After 638 CE all but 10 percent gradually converted to Islam. The present-day Palestinians are the descendants of the ancient Jews and have every right to live where their ancestors have lived for centuries.

Posted in israel, mid east peace process, netanyahu, palestinian conflict, World News | Tagged: , , | Leave a Comment »

New Award Political Hall of Shame…Or Michele Bachmann Another Politican Full of Sh*t

Posted by politicalmonkey2010 on April 23, 2010

(Note: I’m back….life interfered with blogging…here is the post I was working on when lifus interuptus hit..)

I have decided to create a new award for all those politicians or want to be politicians who think the American public is blind, deaf and dumb.  The first ever You Are So Full of Shit goes to….drum roll please….

It’s a Tie!  But I have a sneaking suspicion that whom ever Sarah Palin campaigns for there is sure to be some questionable statements presented as fact.  I had no idea who Michele Bachmann was, until Sarah Palin campaigned for her, this immediately drew my attention, and I was not disappointed.  I actually watched Sean Hannity interview Sarah Palin and Michele Bachmann at their Minnesota Rally.  I had the distinct feeling I was watching Dr. Evil and Mini Me being interviewed, the clapping seals in the audience were terrifying, but I digress..I didn’t know who she really was, but her remarks made me uneasy, so I started out looking into her..her philosophy, her goals.  Do you know what I found?  She is scary, Sarah Palin kinda scary.  I would highly recommend the following blog: http://dumpbachmann.blogspot.com/

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Sarah Palin an Enigma or Sarah Palin an Enema or Sarah Palin the Enemy

Posted by politicalmonkey2010 on April 10, 2010

I am just baffled at this woman, and I am even more baffled at the American public.   I have been gnawing on this one for awhile, particularly since she has been in the spot light “firing up the conservative base”.    And believe it or not, I actually watched the Sean Hannity “show”..and that is when it hit me, I was able to predict with uncanny accuracy exactly what she was going to say, I was having flash backs to the campaign.  There are a handful of phrases that Sarah uses, catchy little jingles like take back our country, shore up the economy, Obama care, government take over of health care, wink, smile…blah blah blah..and the crowd goes wild.  Of course I have yet to hear her say anything positive about Pres. Obama, somebody correct me if I am wrong.

The latest example is the Nuclear reduction treaty…let’s put it in perspective, even with the nuclear reduction, we, Russia, and a variety of other countries, declared or not have the ability to completely destroy every living thing on the planet several times over.  I think once is quite adequate, but then again what the hell do I know?   (Here is one of many differences between Sarah and I, I will readily admit when  I don’t know, as opposed to coming off as an expert, but then again maybe taking down a moose or two has some how prepared Sarah for nuclear arms talks?)  Please let us remember those famous interviews during the campaign, keep in mind people she had been coached ad naseum and still couldn’t pull it off.  So now she delivers those perky little speeches filled with trite sayings, the script is there, and the adoring conservative base, the Tea Party folks get all wiggly when Sarah makes those profound statements like :  take back our government.  My question is exactly what does that mean Sarah to take back the government?  Or when she offers blanket solutions to complex problems, like cut taxes and that will bring the economy back.  Which taxes Sarah shall we cut?  We all want tax cuts, we all want the economy back, but exactly which taxes and where is the supporting documentation that your tax cutting program will work?  Let me back up…what exactly is your tax cutting program?  I too would clap like a trained seal for tax cuts, but you know what that’s part of the problem.  Politicians give us nice sound bites, there is no meat in their campaigning.   There is no in depth knowledge of the issues, the problems, let alone the solutions.  I do not know who I am more disappointed in..Sarah Palin or the trained clapping seals in the audience.  It is time for all of us to grow up, and look long and hard at the issues, it is time for politicians to offer some meat in their rhetoric, it is time to stop fanning the flames, and going back to work for the people.

But I digress, back to the nuclear issue….Pres. Obama has been very kind to Sarah, he has not taken her out at the knees, and let’s be honest the woman is begging for it.  I think even he is now getting tired of Sarah..and I absolutely loved his response on an ABC interview, it shows he in fact is a leader, he is not relying on cute little winks and sayings, he conducts himself as the person who leads the free world should, this is something Sarah will never get.

In an appearance Wednesday on Fox News, Palin compared Pres. Obama to a kid in a playground who is asking for a punch in the face.

“It’s unbelievable. Unbelievable. No administration in America’s history would, I think, ever have considered such a step that we just found out President Obama is supporting today. It’s kinda like getting out there on a playground, a bunch of kids, getting ready to fight, and one of the kids saying, ‘Go ahead, punch me in the face, and I’m not going to retaliate. Go ahead and do what you want to with me.'”

Pres. Obama responded with:  “I really have no response. Because last I checked, Sarah Palin’s not much of an expert on nuclear issues.

Pressed further on Republican criticism that his strategy restricts the use of nuclear weapons too much, Obama added:

“What I would say to them is, is that if the secretary of defense and the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff are comfortable with it, I’m probably going to take my advice from them and not from Sarah Palin.

See the video here:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_zSBtx76B8

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Netanyahu Won’t Attend Nuclear Summit – or Why Should Israel Play By the Rules?

Posted by politicalmonkey2010 on April 10, 2010

Courtesy of Reuters…

Netanyahu, who plans to send a deputy and two senior advisers to the April 12-13 conference instead, canceled “after learning that some countries including Egypt and Turkey plan to say Israel must sign the NPT,” an Israeli official said.

Political Monkey Commentary: Gee why is Israel so special that they do not have to disclose what they have?  Why can’t the play by the rules like everybody else?  Why are they not thrown into the same category as a “rogue” state?

Arab diplomats countered that they suspected Netanyahu had canceled mainly to avoid further confrontation with U.S. President Barack Obama over Jewish settlements, and denied having any plans to press Israel on atomic policy.

Netanyahu’s attendance at the 47-country summit would have been unprecedented. Israeli premiers long shunned such forums, hoping to dampen foreign scrutiny on their nuclear secrets.

By staying outside the 1970 Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT), Israel has not had to forswear nuclear arms nor admit international inspectors to its Dimona reactor, which experts believe has produced plutonium for between 80 and 200 warheads.

Aides said Netanyahu had agreed to attend the summit after being assured it would focus on efforts to secure fissile materials and shun language challenging Israel’s nuclear “ambiguity” policy.

Political Monkey Commentary:  Why is it acceptable for Israel to be “elusive” to what nuclear capabilities and or weapons it has.  Is it ok for for Iran to be elusive?  Is it ok for North Korea to be elusive?

Such coordination between the allies has been clouded by rifts over stalled Israeli-Palestinian peace talks.


But two senior Arab officials accused Netanyahu of trying to evade questions on the Palestinian issue that has lately clouded Israel’s ties with its largest U.S. ally.

“We believe that Netanyahu withdrew from the summit because he did not want to face President Obama and is using Egypt and Turkey as an excuse,” a senior Egyptian diplomat said.

Another senior Arab diplomat intimately involved in the negotiations said Arab states had no plan to “politicize” the venue and raise the Israeli issue there.

“We are surprised that the Israeli prime minister would use this as a pretext for not attending,” the second diplomat told Reuters, speaking on condition of anonymity.

But Turkey’s Foreign Ministry said Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan would demand at the summit that Israel disarm as part of a nuclear-free Middle East.

Political Monkey Commentary:  Well, let’s see the ENTIRE world has said the settlements in Jerusalem is illegal, so ya think you might feel a little heat?

The French newspaper Le Monde quoted Erdogan as saying in Paris this week that “Israel is the principal threat to peace in the region today.”

“Israel has nuclear weapons but doesn’t belong to the NPT. Does that mean that those who don’t sign the NPT are in a privileged position?”

Political Monkey Comment – He is absolutely right…let’s say Israel decides to launch some type of pre-emptive strike on Iran.  Do you think that has no effect on the US of A?  The entire world?

The White House welcomed Netanyahu’s stand-in, Deputy Prime Minister Dan Meridor, to the summit. Meridor will be accompanied by Israeli National Security Adviser Uzi Arad and Shaul Horev, head of the Israel Atomic Energy Commission, aides said.

“We obviously would like to have the prime minister but the deputy prime minister will be leading the delegation and it will be a robust Israeli delegation,” U.S. National Security Adviser Jim Jones told reporters.

U.S.-Israeli contacts are “ongoing and fine and continuous,” he said.

Netanyahu had planned to drum up support at the summit for sanctions against its foe Iran, which the West suspects of seeking nuclear weapons despite denials from Tehran. Neither Iran nor North Korea will be attending.

“This conference is about nuclear terrorism,” Netanyahu said on Wednesday.

“And I’m not concerned that anyone will think that Israel is a terrorist regime. Everybody knows a terrorist and rogue regime when they see one, and believe me they see quite a few — around Israel.”

Political Monkey Action – hands Mr. Netanyahu a mirror.

Israel says its nuclear secrecy helps ward off enemies while avoiding the kind of provocations that can trigger arms races.

The official reticence, and the tacit U.S. acceptance of Israel’s nuclear monopoly, aggrieves Arab and Muslim powers.

India and Pakistan — both scheduled to attend the nuclear security summit — are outside the NPT, like Israel. Unlike them, Israel has not openly tested or deployed atomic weapons.

Political Monkey Commentary – why is a “Muslim” thing? It is not a Muslim thing, it is a HUMAN thing.

(Additional reporting by Joseph Nasr in Jerusalem, Ershad Mohammed in Washington, Tulay Karadeniz in Konya, Turkey, Sherine El Madany in Cairo, Paul Taylor in Paris and Caren Bohan aboard Air Force One; Editing by Michael Roddy)

Posted in israel, netanyahu, US Politics, World News | Tagged: , , | Leave a Comment »

$arah Palin – It’s a Family Event

Posted by politicalmonkey2010 on April 9, 2010

I refer you all to the following blog…. http://gesvol.wordpress.com/it is true, the entire family is on display….seems like dad and brother are making the tea party tour and will be in Alabama!!!  Free tickets!  I am curious as to the fee and expenses incurred….at any rate, let’s all encourage “gesvol” to attend, get pictures, videos  – the whole enchilada!!!!!

Posted in sarah palin, Tea Party | Tagged: , , | 1 Comment »